It's not magic so why believe it is?

There's no magic to this. No magic, no magic, no magic. This conversation I recorded took place two weekends ago. It's from a guy I'll call Stephen who is actually good with women. I've seen it with my own two eyes. No selling, no bootcamp, no product just a guy who is good with women. This is part of the conversation:

"This ain't no magic. I didn't know of this PUA community until 2007. Before that I was hooking up with girls left and right. Anyone can if they talk to enough women and try your best not to creep them out. But when I found out about all of this community taking place I was stunned. It was like damn there are dudes with thousands of post talking about gaming women on these forums and shit. And then when I found out about products, bootcamps etc I was like oh hell no!

$500 DVD sets, $2000 bootcamps! Then I started seeing advertising on Craigslist and such. I don't know, it was crazy. And suddenly I had found that this explosion was caused by this book the Game so I read it and I started looking some of these guys up and found out that a great percentage of this is a facade. It really is. You don't need to stay in a community. It's like staying in rehab forever. Anyway I started inquiring about some of these companies and started following some of these guys, finding out where their bootcamps were being held in the clubs and such and I would walk away shaking my head because I didn't see anything that impressed me; it was seriously some guys saying go talk to those girls, okay you leaning too much, okay go talk to those two girls. You did good but you need to slow down your speech. Thanks that'll be $3000!

Man I've been doing that stuff since 1994 when I was old enough to go out to bars! I didn't do anything special when I pulled that cheerleader for the Chargers! It was just confidence, humor and a direct 'look I want to go out with you' statement of intent. She could've easily said no and no amount of PUA voodoo would've changed that. And the funny thing about that night was that this unattractive redhead shot me down 30 minutes before that. I wanted to hook up with her because she had huge boobs but looks wise she was about a 5! LOL seriously and she told me to go away! And then that cheerleader for the Chargers was sitting there with her friend drinking margaritas and I sat down at their table and asked them if I could join them and they ended up being fun and goofy and I hook up with one of them only to find out she's a cheerleader for San Diego! I think as long as you have a sense of humor and don't overdo it, and you have confidence, and a willingness to put yourself on the line without any bullshit then you can get laid at least twice a month if not more. It's not magic, it really isn't.

What I've learned summary of the community

What I've learned in the 10-12 years of being in and watching the community

I don't keep up with this blog as much as I'd like too but since I found the community in 1998, or 99 or whatever I'd like to recap what I've learned and exposed and found true or not.

1) Most gurus are full of shit! Yes you've heard it right here. I hate to break it to you all but with the exception of Europe and other places overseas I've seen about 90 percent of the PUA's that everyone thinks is bad ass, cool, and attracting so many hot women and the truth is they aren't!

Some instructors will not approach, some aren't getting laid at all, others are picking up chicks who are less that average. Now I have nothing against picking up average chicks, I fuck them myself but don't put a 10 on the cover of your new product when the best you are getting is a 5 or 6!

2) Most products are worthless. All of those $300, $500, $1000 products you salivate for are mostly rehashed jargon with added icing. For a long period of time I used only 1 ebook I read to increase my game. That's it. A $19 ebook (which is still overpriced) took me from getting 1 lay ever so often to about 2-3 different women a month. I know that sounds low but that was good for me at one time. Most information can be learned in forums even if the person posting is posting a bunch of bullshit out of his ass it's still better than paying $500 for the same shit with proper editing. I sold all of my stuff on ebay, deleted torrents and deleted the other stuff that I no longer use. I kept 3 books and that's all I still use today.

3) People love information and thinking about game more than they love going out and talking to women. No need to expand on that. I know guys who go out once a month for a few hours to talk to women yet spend 3-4 hours daily studying and talking about game. Why?

4) 90 percent of students are like lottery players. Only a certain number are winning. Again I've said it over and over, when you read rave bootcamps reviews and you look up and see the person who wrote the review has only posted once or twice that's all you need to know. I found out through a former instructor that some of these guys don't even exist. They were made up

by some instructor logging in at an anonymous location, writing a full high detailed positive review at Starbucks and then that's it! Notice in the review how all of the instructors were 'amazing' There are exceptions, there are those students who go out and do get good results.

But again there are many more who aren't. Case closed.

Grow your penis I mean game!

Penis enlargement pills are still rampant on the market. They're all over the place. The truth is people are still forking over a lot of cash thinking that this miracle pill will solve their problem. And yes guys no matter what women say to some extent size does matter. But anyway the whole penis pill enlargement scam reminds me of the PUA scams circulating. I've seen a ton of these guys out in field and their results don't come close to their product claims. Now I have seen guys go from zero to 5 in a matter of weeks. But I've never seen or have rarely seen any of these guys surrounded by 9's and 10's in the clubs and bars except to take pictures. I've known some of these gurus to ask girls to take a picture with them. Awesome! Now you can post it online and show your potential students! In the meantime lets regurgitate the same material over and over again and repackage it for resale with new mind blowing secrets! My penis has grown 4 inches! The other pills did nothing for me but finally I found one that works! Thank God the search is over!

That's what your being sold people! The fantasy of taking your game to the next level, going home every night to beautiful women! Hey newsflash, Joe just flew in from Fried County, Alabama what beautiful women are you talking about? He doesn't live in Malibu! There's no beach! There's farmland and a diner! Next product please!

Guru Unlimited

Dear Guru, stop spamming me with a barrage of news letters about amazing things you've done or your students have done. I've seen you in field, you've rarely done anything amazing outside of talking to a girl, getting her to laugh and hoping she goes home with you or gives you her number.

Sigh, I have to thank the community because my game has gotten 3 times better than the days before I was in the community. It really has progressed since 1998 or whatever when I started reading online discussion forums and websites catering to pickup and women in general. Since that time I've watched former players, virgins turned PUA's, naturals, and everyone stick their recipe into the pot and try to sell their ideas, stories, theories etc to a small mass of men who need help understanding dating. Let me just say it's been wonderful going through this transition but

man seriously you want to charge me $2500, $3000, $10000 (yes I know some guys who will charge $10000) to spend a weekend with you in class then out at a club to watch you have a few drinks and then tell a few girls "is she always like this, I'm taking her home with me as my pet, can you cook?, let me see your palm" Now it's your turn student, lean back, be relaxed.
Uh no thanks, I'll just read a few ebooks, buy some cool outfits and learn on my own which is pretty much what I did for years.

But you all heard about the amazing results the students had. Statistically I'd say about 1 in 4 students has great success. At least 50 percent of students don't improve by much at all. Okay so I don't have statistics to back up my statistics but this is just observation from myself, my friends and a number of former instructors I've had the pleasure to talk to. When you read the amazing results threads from students keep a watch out for the number of post the guy has, find his other post. 9 times out of 10 these amazing results students have less than 5 post leading up to their amazing bootcamp experience. Many of them have 1 or 2. Hmm.

Really, I don't post this blog to tell you that every guru is BS or to tell you not to waste your money but to give you a heads up on the business of pickup artist companies. Enter at your own risk.

What are the gurus up to now?

Seems like for the most part of 2009 things have slowed down a bit from the community after a wave of products unleashed from 05-08. I'm waiting for the next Alpha product that will revolutionize the community. Okay I'm joking about that but you guys get where I'm coming from. I had originally posted how a few guys I knew from competing companies would trying to brainstorm and research night and day to find a new product to unleash that will supposedly take your game into the stratosphere. And what it usually turned out to be was another rehash of the same old material just repackaged and presented in a new way with a few more added ingredients. And let me say I've seen the majority of these guys out at bars and clubs and truthfully I've never seen anything revolutionary. Don't get me wrong I have seen some solid pulls from time to time but I think the guys on the outside looking in salivate over the idea that these guys are going into clubs and picking up women with a shopping cart.
We've all been exposed to products, interviews on television, reality shows, and a continuous flood of inbox newsletters. As one guru said a few years ago: It's big business now!

In the past few years when I would brave trips (LA traffic sucks ass to the extreme) to the ever so popular West Hollywood district of Los Angeles hitting up some of the hot clubs I spotted on occasion a few of our so called masters leaning by the bar chugging away a few drinks and watching the scene. Nothing wrong with that at all. I do that myself. But I could sense a sort of reluctance whenever a group of hot women were in the area. That would usually be followed by a smile and an attempt to say something clever. Sometimes there were blow outs, sometimes there were opens and invitations to conversations. Rarely did I see full closes. These same masters would have field reports that was nothing like what went down that night. Again I'm not saying all of them but I would say over 60 percent of them. The report would read something about HB9 giving a bit of resistance, then PUA eventually broke the resistance, they would go outside to talk, they got home, made out after last minute resistance, etc. The truth would be PUA talked to HB 7,8,9, infinity, she laughed a bit, then said she's going to join her friends and she'll see him later. PUA eventually got a number from HB6 and went home. I've seen that so many times it isn't funny. And then during the bootcamp PUA would casually open a set and then tell the students to go open the set. Or the PUA would suddenly be in a relationship and can't really demonstrate. It happens often.

So anyway enough of that, I'm eager to see the next big thing. I'll be waiting!

Gang mentality gets Average Joe Laid

Welcome back. Today I have an interview with a 30 year old guy who calls himself Wolfman Jack. Okay he only called himself that one night when I met him, he doesn't go by that name!

He's been in the community for just over a year and wants to share his experience, mainly how one movie changed his mentality on getting women. I've seen the guy on several occassions and new he was a community head; he has a fearless like attitude about being a player. Without further introduction.

So Wolfman!! I'm not interested in the details of how you got started, I'm interested in how you came to this new frame of mind.

WJ: I was home one night drinking a beer and I was bored so shuffling through my movie collection, I put in the movie Menace II Society because I had never watched it. Well there was a scene where they do a gang initation by beating the shit out of the pledge. And thats when I had my revelation!

So you decided you were going to beat the shit out of women? LOL!

WJ: No, No! See I had been in the community, learning all the routines, reading blogs, reading forums, ebooks etc. I was doing alright as far as interacting with sets, getting numbers here and there and on occasions getting a date but I really felt like I was playing things way too safe. I felt I could be so much better. I was getting laid like once a month if that which isn't bad but I have a high sex drive from working out and such. I wanted to get laid more to be honest.

Well I thought to myself fuck it, I'm going to take a beating! For one weekend I said I didn't care what happened, and I said everything on my mind and went for everything out there balls first.

I was like the kid that wanted to join the gang by doing something painful, if it meant taking a beating I was going to do it.

So what happened that weekend?

WJ: Wow! Man I got cursed at, told to fuck off, told I was immature, haha and it didn't hurt one bit. But I also got my dick sucked the second night I went out with that mentality.

Awesome! And no one got hurt! LOL! What did you do or say?

WJ: I would say anything and everything and hold eye contact without a smile. Like I was really sure of myself. I said dumb shit, funny shit, bold shit, everything. I told a girl lets go dance and we went and danced and after that I said I'm done dancing with you lets go make out! She was like fuck you! I told another girl I hey whats up, I just wanted to let you know how beautiful you are and that we should go out soon. She smiled and said thanks but no thanks. I told another girl that I thought the club was boring and that we should go home and fuck and come back and see if things are picking up. She told me to go fuck myself. LOL

Okay so what about the blow job!!

WJ: Yeah, that was from a cute girl who I told her she had a sexy mouth and wondered if she kissed well. I kept on pushing and pulling with her, even put my hand up in her face to signal I'm talking to someone else, hold on for a second! I looked at her and told her to walk me to my car and she did. We got in the car and we made out and she sucked my dick and swallowed.

Thats pimp! Whats the craziest thing you've said to a woman and it worked?

Standing outside of a bar I told a girl after an initial conversation that she had a nice butt and that I think she should let me lick her butthole. She said OMG! shook her head, took a drag on her cigarette and said that I'm too much while rolling her eyes. Later that night I'm talking to a buddy at the bar and I feel a tap on my shoulder, she whispers in my ear "would you really lick my butthole if I let you" I looked at her straight faced "fuck yes and you would enjoy it too"

She went and hunted down her friend and told her she's going to hang out with me for a bit. We went back to my apartment and I tossed her salad and ate her pussy and she came hard. I then fucked her doggy style while pulling her hair. Awesome night. She goes to Arizona St and was home for the weekend and her boyfriend is in the Navy in San Diego.

Hahaha! Man thats what I'm talking about!!

WJ: Yeah man I'm getting action like every week! I go out about 3 maybe 4 nights a week and at least once maybe twice a week I'm pulling action and I don't mean a date or number I mean fucking, sucking or whatever else. I'm discreet about my business to, I'm not out bragging online, I haven't even been online for over 6 months to a site that deals with pickup or seduction,

too much info messing with my head so I do it my way straight up.

Do you ever see any gurus out?

WJ: On a few occasions I have. I usually find out from another friend of mine, in fact he's now taking my route and he's doing alright for himself But yeah I've seen a few. I think they have a lot to offer but look before you shell out all of that hard earned cash, for one month grab your balls and take a beating and go out with no fear. Now that doesn't mean if you see a girl with her assumed boyfriend to jump in and start macking, be smart about it and be wary of the logistics but if you see single women out go up and talk to them! Ask for a date, ask for the number, or if you really want a dare tell them you want to get with them if you know what I mean. On several occassions I've actually pulled girls that I saw previously turn down some big name community guy, now that doesn't mean shit really but it goes to show with a big set of balls can do as long as your fun also.

That's what I've been trying to tell some guys. So is there anything that made you go wow?

WJ: What do you mean?

I mean any moments that made you think that you're over your head or surprised you?

WJ: A few times yeah. One 32 year old lady that was super hot that is high up in a Fortune 500 company who I pulled. She was super fucking kinky! Loved anal and loved for me to cum on her face. Another girl who dances for a professional football team. That was my highest achievement I think. And there are some lows, lol! Some girls that I wasn't too proud of but the blowjob were so good so you know!!

So is this the way you're going to handle your game now from now on?

WJ: eh I game like this about 50 percent of the time. Sometimes because of the logistics I have to do passive indirect game because of all the guys, other girls etc around. And when I do I'll nab numbers, a date etc. But when I'm super horny I do nothing but hardcore direct, with lots of sexual innuendo's, eye contact and a take it or leave it attitude. But I respect women also so It's not like my mentality is fuck her I'm out for the pussy and that's it and that's all she is to me. No, that misogynistic. But I'm just more blunt now and it's working pretty well.

Game on my brother!

WJ: exactly!

Interview with a former PUA instructor

I present to you interviews with dating gurus ala a different take. No seriously I had a chance to hang out with a former instructor who I will keep anonymous so he doesn’t get beat down by a bunch of pea cocked guys throwing out negs! Anyway we had lunch, a few beers and some real talk about his thoughts about the community. I took as many notes as possible.

Q: First and foremost your anonymity is safe with me man, so tell me how you became a PUA instructor.

I did really well on my boot camp and the other instructors got together and then I get a private message asking if I wanted to teach. It all was so fast I was excited but nervous.

Q: You know I’ve been pointing out some of the BS that goes on in the community, was your boot camp a good experience? Was it worth it?

It actually was. I honestly didn’t know what to expect, I mean I read the write ups from other guys who had taken boot camps and by the way, don’t believe all of those write ups because a lot of them are fakes like you pointed out, yet I was excited but a bit skeptical. But I learned a few things that I never noticed before and my game improved. I would say out of a 10 I would give my experience a 7. I’ve taken 2 boot camps with 2 different companies by the way. One sucked, and I asked for a refund and I went through loops just to get ½ of it back. The other boot camp was great.

Q: Did you see anything that made you question the legitimacy of the community in general or the PUA’s?

Yeah I mean there was one instructor who kind of hung out and didn’t really do much approaching but stood back and observed. But my instructor was very active and did well in his sets. You start to realize though that the majority of this is about being able to hold a conversation and having balls. Seriously!

Q: You’ve seen every PUA just about. Are they as good as advertised in your opinion?

Some are and some aren’t. Some are good, some are great and some are horrible. I mean really horrible. But you know sometimes it depends on who the audience is. If you’ve never been to a club or interacted with women you would think some of these guys are masters when they aren’t. Me, I was sort of in the middle so no one has blown me away but there are some decent guys. Let me say this though, just because a guy sucks doesn’t mean you can’t learn anything from him. Sometimes the best teachers are the ones who failed in their given profession.

Q: Who’s the best you’ve seen? But remember I won’t stroke any egos by printing any names or discredit anyone either?

Yeah understandable. Honestly I haven’t seen anyone that I can say consistently is the best. The best guys in clubs are athletes! LOL, in big cities I’ve been in athletes get the top of the line women. Okay I know that’s not fair but it’s the truth. No PUA can compete with that. But you know back to who is the best, like I said on a night to night basis I haven’t seen anyone that I can say is above every other top PUA out there. There’s usually a pool of about 5 or more really good pua’s then another 10 that’s okay and then the rest are very mediocre. And we’re talking about the big names here.

Q: So what do you dislike and like about being in the community?

I dislike the infighting and fan clubs! I hate that with a passion. I can’t tell whether we’re a community who wants to improve our skills with women or if we’re sports fans. The dumbest thing to me is arguing over methods! Come on seriously the goal is to get the girl who in the hell cares how it’s done? You have guys arguing against one or the other way, I say “fuck it” who cares if you go in the back door, front door, through the window or down the chimney to get inside? It all works it just depends on the situation, you know what I mean?

Most of these guys will never be successful with women, they are too worried about which guru is getting girls. How retarded is that? When you’re more concerned with how attractive the women are that a guru is pulling then you have maturity issues. If you see a guru out with a girl you find ugly or unattractive then what does that mean? That you have to date the same women? Dumb! But you know I realize a lot of these guys are 18-24 and have that boy mentality and that’s where all of the immaturity comes from.

Q: I totally agree! The best player I’ve ever seen was an older black guy who loved bigger white women. Most community guys would ridicule him because of his taste in women but I would put 3 paychecks on him that he could pull women just as well as 90 percent of the gurus in the community! His mindset is so confident I’ve watched him pull some girls who could be models just to show the doubters but again that’s not what he’s attracted to.

And see you and I get that but these guys don’t get it. You know it’s like everyone has the white European standard, standards that are set by some gay fashion designer and if you deviate from that then you’re not worthy of being listened to or followed. It’s total bullshit.

Q: I definitely agree. What do you think are the biggest myths of the community?

Hahaha, that you have to be alpha for one to pull girls. That’s such bullshit. Yeah it helps but one of the best naturals I know dresses rather feminine and has a skinny build. And man let me tell you he pulls the hottest chicks (especially bisexual chicks) that you can imagine. He doesn’t look that way to get chicks, it’s just he’s always been a Bowie fan and he has this androgynous look about him. Man that guy has some babes! Another one is that you have to have killer game to land the 9’s and 10’s. Bullshit. There are times when I’ve struggled to pull a 7 when my game was tight as fuck, and later that night I would pull a 10 without even trying much. It’s situational! But inexperienced guys don’t understand that. You don’t need a special routine, or some other shit because she’s a 10. Straight up myth!

Q: So a nice guy can pull babes?

Of course. What is up with associating nice guys with every negative trait anyway? See people have no idea what in the hell they are talking about. No one is 100 percent nice all of the time and no one is 100 percent bad. But a guy who has respect, admiration, good qualities and traits and is labeled nice is somehow categorized as weak, a pushover and not attractive. The guys who believe that no nothing, absolutely nothing about what they are talking about. You can't just put a tag on a person, associate it with everything negative and be done with it. So yes a guy who is nice can pull babes, he'll just have a harder time pulling the younger, insecure girls.

Q: The big question: Why did you quit?

I don’t know. I was tired of it. Business was spotty and let me tell you this, instructors don’t get paid a hell of a lot. I mean it’s fun but we don’t make much profit from doing it. A lot of profit comes from the products companies make and believe me a lot of that shit is nothing but rehashed material presented in a different way with maybe a few new theories thrown in. Like any business there’s a lot of politics involved and people not seeing eye to eye. I had had enough. So I left. But there were no real hard feelings.

Q: So you never answered the question: What was the best thing you liked about the community?

The fun I had. The women I met, and there were plenty! The nights spent out gaming women were fun and you was always learning something. You can’t learn this shit reading theories on message boards. You really have to get out there. But you know I realized some things to and that is you don’t always need this stuff to pull gorgeous women. After I left I didn’t run any community game and still pulled girls on confidence and just having something interesting to say and talk about. The only difference is when I was in the community and running game it was easy to get into sets but it didn’t make it that much easier to close. A lot of the top PUA’s are good at opening sets and getting the interaction going but still lack closing skills. But yea it was a lot of fun at times. Some bad times to but that’s expected.

Q: What did you think about the TV show?

I didn’t follow it that much. I watched bits and pieces and you know I’ve heard some say that none of it is scripted and I’ve heard say that some of it is and I’m one of the ones who feel that it is scripted simply because the main reason for these shows on VH1 is entertainment. If they made a show about guys learning chess they would have to add some entertainment value otherwise it would bore it’s audience. But it was a good marketing tool for the company.

Q: Cool, finally what do you see as the future of the community?

I haven’t given it much thought. I think companies will continue to compete for audiences and continue to market themselves with the latest, greatest products. In all honesty I’ve haven’t seen too many products that break much ground from things that came out years back. You see companies put out a 10 DVD, 5 audio CD set and then follow it up with another product that’s very similar but has added a few new ideas then you realize it’s about making money first and foremost. A lot of these guys don’t want to fathom the idea of working a boring 9 to 5 and I don’t blame them. The instructors do work 9 to 5’s but the company president wants to party, meet girls and come home, log on the computer and try to find different ways to come up with new ideas to market. Right now infield footage is the hot thing. When that gets old who knows what will be next.